Building A Lifestyle Brand with Alex McCabe from Kip&Co

Kip&Co is an Australian Lifestyle brand that never stops evolving.

From the early days of the croc print bed linen (anyone have that print?) to developing beautiful womens and kids apparel, lighting, pet accessories, tableware and so much more. 

If you have ever wanted to build your own brand or you are doing so right now then  this is a must listen.

I spoke with Alex McCabe about how she and her two business partners  (sisters) Hayley and Kate built Kip&Co from the ground up.

Alex explains how much hard work it took to get Kip&Co where it is today and what they’re looking forward to in 2024.

Kip&Co has mastered the balance between wholesale and retail by dedicating separate teams to each channel. Alex highlighted the importance of transparency and communication with stockists, ensuring a unified approach to sales and distribution.
 
For those starting or looking to grow their brand, Alex's advice is simple: just get started. Don't wait for perfection; instead, be realistic about your financial situation and give your brand the time it needs to flourish. Enjoy the process, and don't be afraid to adapt and evolve.

Alex and I discuss all of the following:

00:35 The brains behind Kip&Co

07:56 What is outsourced at Kip&Co?

09:18 How Kip&Co sources their products and materials

13:34 Determining how much to order

16:58 Organizing wholesale vs retail

18:26 Kip&Co’s stockists

20:49 How Kip&Co achieved growth with branding

25:41 What collaborations do for a brand like Kip&Co

28:38 Alex’s advice for anyone looking to start a lifestyle brand

Shop all things lifestyle at Kip&Co here.

Follow Kip&Co on Instagram here.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Mel: Welcome to thelotco business podcast, a show all about helping you as a retailer, brand, or creative. Understand the actual business side of running your business. I offer straightforward practical advice about the nitty gritty of making money from your creative passion. We will be covering bite sized business and marketing lessons as well as interviews with experts and trailblazers in the fashion, homewares, and design industries.

[00:00:28] Mel: My name is Melissa Robbins. I'm a business coach, color loving, non coffee drinking Melburnian. Let's get into it. Hello and welcome to today's podcast. I'm super excited to have a guest today, Alex McCabe from Kip and Co. Now Kip and Co, if you don't know, is an Australian homewares apparel and gifting company full of print and color and texture, and they are fierce.

[00:00:51] Mel: They are a fiercely proud female founded and led company. ethical company. First of all, welcome, Alex. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me, Mel. Now, I did say to you, I said, think that I don't even know how to describe Kip and Co anymore, because you have just, just started like creating the most amazing products and such a huge variety.

[00:01:11] Mel: So how do you describe Kip and Co now? Like who you are? It is a 

[00:01:17] Alex: very broad breadth of products we offer now. So what started as bedding back 12 years ago has expanded into what we now call a lifestyle brand, which is really just intended to be an all encompassing umbrella for all of the things we currently do and all of the things we might dream up in the coming years.

[00:01:39] Alex: , but the signature element of it all is that it's bright and fun and colourful and irreverent, , homewares and apparel for the whole family. 

[00:01:48] Mel: Yep. I love that. And I think that's it. It does leave you scope to come up with new creative ideas. And as you keep doing, every time I, you know, look at the new ranges and see you at trade shows or whatever, I'm like, what is next?

[00:02:01] Mel: There is just such an amazing collection. I think your latest has been, , the lamps. And then what else did I saw something? Oh, I was just a jewelry box. I think it was, I was like, well, 

[00:02:12] Alex: Yes, I know. I mean, that's what, , has always been the thing that motivated us and what got us into the business to begin with was this genuine passion personally for homewares, , and I feel like that.

[00:02:26] Alex: Opportunity there is almost never ending because we're always finding new things in the home that we feel like, , there's a chance for us to kippify for want of an actual word. , so yes, yeah, you're on the money. Lamps is our latest passion and there's plenty more coming. 

[00:02:44] Mel: Yeah. Oh, I can't wait. I love that.

[00:02:45] Mel: I just think, you know, every time I'm like, what else could they possibly do? And you do it with, I think as well that, as you say, like what that gap in the market is and really looking for where there's, you know, as you say, for you to put your Kip and Co version on it and spin on it. 

[00:03:02] Alex: Yeah, yeah, that's right.

[00:03:03] Alex: And I think that's the test for us. , about when we come up with a new product idea. Can we make that KIP? Because there's no point in just doing a plain white lamp because there's plenty of them already on the market. So what would the KIP version be of that? , and for the most part, there's a chance there for us to really, , I guess, give it that little edge and.

[00:03:27] Alex: bring some color or texture or print to the product as well. And that has that kind of signature kit look then. 

[00:03:34] Mel: And so obviously in the, I say this all the time in the podcast, I'm like, obviously, no, it's not obvious to everyone else, but in the company then yourself and,, Haley and Kate, can you just tell me a little bit about, I know you've got lots of other team in your, you know, in your world as well now, but what are the different roles that you each play?

[00:03:51] Alex: Yes. , so the three of us founded it about 12 years ago. And back then we really shared everything. We did everything together. , so Kate has a background in finance. So she, would, in addition to design, , she took on finance and then my background is kind of marketing comms and, , legal. So I, , was a bit more involved in those areas and Haley has an amazing natural affinity for, , creative direction and product development.

[00:04:23] Alex: So while we all definitely have a very fine line. fluid roles. That was loosely how we broke them up. , and then slowly, very organically, we've added team members as we've felt, you know, we're kind of bursting at the seams and we needed helping. We've added that team member. , and now we have, , a team of just over 20 team members who, gratefully, , far more experienced and, , incredibly, , expert in their fields, much more than we are in each of those individual areas now.

[00:04:57] Alex: So we're playing a really different role, which is around that, , you know, bringing that company knowledge and the brand DNA, which really lives in us and providing that, , support and advice to each , function within the business rather than being on the tools all the time with the exception of design, which is the area that we still kind of manage ourselves.

[00:05:18] Alex: , and then, , we've excitingly just, , appointed a CEO. That's our first, um,, CEO that we've had. And, , yeah, they're due to start in the next few weeks, actually. So that will be amazing and a really big step for the business. 

[00:05:33] Mel: Yeah, that's huge. And as you say, like we've gradually added those other roles where they were required and needed.

[00:05:40] Mel: And yeah, now having someone, cause that's, that's the thing as well. Like you aren't necessarily in the office, in the space or in working there every day. So having someone be that guiding light is, is going to be amazing. 

[00:05:52] Alex: I think so important for the team to have ,, a manager who's In there on the ground with them every day.

[00:05:59] Alex: Kate and Haley and I have always run the business really flexibly. That's how it was set up from the get go. And so we've maintained that, but as the team has grown, their needs change and so, , yeah. Yeah, I think it would be really wonderful for them to have someone with that level of expertise. They're beside them shoulder to shoulder, like great learning opportunity for them, but also just so exciting for the brand.

[00:06:22] Mel: And I think that's as well, that's something you haven't been afraid to do is to employ people who, yeah, as you say, no more than you in those particular areas. Like that would be, I think some people would be threatened by that, but I think that as you have done it, you've gone, okay, they are way better at, let's say, say also wholesale and you know, we are really, so let's get someone who is focused on that.

[00:06:44] Alex: Yes, absolutely. I don't think any of us have ever been, , you know, too worried about relinquishing a particular area of the business where we've recognized , , the end result will be better for the brand. So what kind of, why wouldn't you, , it's just been about finding the right timings for each of those appointments and going, what's the most, what's the priority list here?

[00:07:08] Alex: Because you can't hire. , a list of 10 expert managers with 15 years experience in every area straight away, or you'd bankrupt yourselves. , , so over time we've kind of recognized, , what the most important next role is. And we still work like that, planning out what the next kind of, , 12 to 18 months would look like in terms of new roles for the business, because the business changes.

[00:07:32] Alex: , every year and and its needs are, , evolving too. So it's important to kind of keep up with that and not just expect that the team, , that was running a business that was, you know, exercise five years ago is this is able to still run a business that might have doubled in size, , a little bit later on.

[00:07:51] Alex: So, yeah, I think that's a really key area of focus for us is, , team management. 

[00:07:56] Mel: Yeah. And who, who were the, some of the first roles that you employed or you started with, like to get, you know, once, so you started, yeah, 12 years ago. So it's been a long journey. Oh yeah, it has been a long journey. You've done amazing job in that time, but what were some of the first outsourcing things you did?

[00:08:12] Alex: So I think the first thing that we recognized was just not in our core skillset was,, website development. So we outsourced that to a freelancer and he, you know, built the website for us, but the first paid employee role was customer service. And that was just, , recognizing that that needed to be someone who was really doing it full time to be responsive to customers.

[00:08:36] Alex: , so that was the first. That was our first role. And then a wholesale sales role, which you, , noted before. And I know you've met Tegan over the years. So yeah, she has been with us a really long time and we've been very lucky with our staff. We've got, , a lot of, , people who have been with us for, you know, six, seven, eight years, which is great.

[00:08:56] Mel: Yeah. I think I was one of your first stockists in Melbourne back when I had my children's store. Yes. Back early, early days. I think I actually had the first range. You managed to have the first season, yeah. First season, yeah, so I've still got a lot of it, don't worry. The longevity of it is amazing. , and yes, when I had my retail store, I had a full cupboard full of, a full house actually of kibunko.

[00:09:18] Mel: So, there's definitely a lot, , Yeah. And it has evolved so much. So, and it, as you said, it's gradually gotten into different areas of the home or the house and, , you know, expanded so much. So who does all the sourcing? Like when you, I know when you first started, you obviously would have done that, but who do you still do that now?

[00:09:35] Mel: Do you all work as a team to do that? Yeah. 

[00:09:37] Alex: So, , we designed the products in Melbourne and then we'll figure out , what the right supply chain is for that product. Most of our stuff is made in India and, , that's where we started manufacturing, but we shifted some product to China, , both as a supply chain risk management strategy to kind of spread the risk, but also, , because when we entered into apparel, they have kind of.

[00:10:04] Alex: technical expertise in China that doesn't exist to the same level in India. , so we'll look at what the product is and where might best suit it. And then in India, we have an agent. , she was really our first kind of partner. , With the business. So she was there from day one, the three of us and this, , agent in India, and she's on the ground there and she will find the right, , factory to produce the product.

[00:10:29] Alex: So that is incredible. , in China, we really go directly to the factory. , but we probably, I'm going to say eight years ago, seven or eight years ago, we hired a production manager and, , she has, , 20 years experience in production. And so she's very familiar with the, , China market particularly. And so she's able to have direct contact with, , factories there.

[00:10:55] Alex: But it's probably the question, one of the questions I get asked most is how do you find that first, , factory? 

[00:11:03] Mel: Yeah, the agent is a good one because I do talk to people about that. Like they know everyone, they have relationships with people and you do pay them a fee or a sourcing fee and stuff like that.

[00:11:14] Mel: But the, what the deal that they're going to get you and the opportunities they're going to get you in front of all the relationships they can start, , way above the cost of what it would cost you. The value they give you is way above what the cost is. 

[00:11:29] Alex: No, yeah, I know what you mean. And I completely agree.

[00:11:32] Alex: I feel like it's a, it takes so much of the unknown, , away when you have an agent that you can be relying on because. Yeah, that that could really make or break your business. I think that first run that you do because it's a big investment. The product, obviously, is like the biggest investment. Really, I think we always say that first little bit of money that we had when we started the business, we pretty much split between Building a little website, paying a photographer and getting the product here.

[00:12:04] Alex: That was really it. , so yeah, it's a big chunk of it and you want to make sure that you're investing that money. 

[00:12:11] Mel: And with, , other manufacturing, I guess that's to say like you're either, it is just a lot of research, right? Like you've just got to keep, you've got to ask different people and people do hold the manufacturers close to their chest because you don't want everyone to know that sort of thing.

[00:12:25] Mel: But, , there are certain times where it's relevant to share or, , I think, as you say, using agents or just. Googling and trying to find it yourself and trying to figure out, you know, go to the trade shows or the exhibitions that happen when there are manufacturers going to those sort of things too. 

[00:12:41] Alex: Yep, exactly.

[00:12:42] Alex: And you're right. I mean, I don't, , typically share a agent or a key suppliers, but if there are suppliers that we're no longer using, cause we're not doing that, , product that fits with them anymore, then I don't, Mind kind of sharing them and, , there are certainly, , expos in India and Germany, in Hong Kong, in China that you can go to and you can Google them and find them.

[00:13:08] Alex: And a lot of our suppliers would be, would attend those. And there's some now have offices in Melbourne too. So it seems really overwhelming, but I think it's just like anything, you just got to start and yeah. Yeah, you'll figure it out a little bit along the way. 

[00:13:26] Mel: Yeah, definitely. And I think that's where, , even I think the one in Melbourne, the, , sourcing expo, like that's a great source of manufacturers and stuff too.

[00:13:34] Mel: Like it's a great starting point to even just, if you're local or wanting to find somewhere you don't have to necessarily travel to. 

[00:13:40] Alex: And they're often, they're quite interconnected. So if, once you've got one supplier, they might, you know, have a, It might even be a family member or a friend or someone they know and yes there might be some kickback that happens as a result but at least you know you've got your next lead and you can follow that one down so yeah I think it's worthwhile.

[00:14:00] Mel: And yeah you can start small like not everyone has a thousand, a thousand unit minimum like you can definitely start small like your guys first runs I'm sure weren't huge when you first got going. 

[00:14:11] Alex: Yeah, absolutely. , and still now we come up against minimums that are, , too high for us. And then you just have to make a call of, well, you can either cut that product or negotiate with them that maybe the price is going to be higher if you get below the minimum, but that's probably still better than you sitting on a warehouse full of stock.

[00:14:30] Alex: So yeah, I think, , there are a few ways to skin the cat. And we definitely were very clear at the beginning that we weren't willing to get a thousand units of , quilt covers. We only wanted, honestly, I think we probably got like 20 or something like that. So yeah. If there's, when there's a will, there's a way.

[00:14:53] Mel: Yeah, definitely. And I guess that's where also having the different channels though has helped you now as well, because I know at one stage you weren't indenting as much, but you obviously added that in terms of you created , the range early enough that you could sell to your wholesalers to allow for ordering.

[00:15:13] Mel: And then obviously having a retail sales as well. 

[00:15:17] Alex: Yeah. Yes. I've almost forgotten that period, but you're totally right. So we used to, when we first started, because we really were getting their minimums, even if we'd negotiated the minimum down a bit, it didn't, , impact us so much what the stock is ordered because we just started.

[00:15:36] Alex: That's all we could kind of afford anyway, and we knew there was still going to be buffer in there for us to sell on our website after wholesale, because, you know, it was probably just you and one other stockist that first season. So, , once they had taken what they wanted, we still had enough for our own website.

[00:15:51] Alex: And that was sort of simple then. , but as we've grown. And we, , have the potential in some products to go over the minimums. Then it gets a little bit trickier and you need to be a bit more sophisticated about your ordering. , the catalyst actually for us going to indent though was when we went to the U S we launched in the U S probably six years ago and, , The advice that was given to us then was that the stockists there would want to, , order on indent quite, quite far out.

[00:16:18] Alex: And so we changed our business model to fit them. We don't actually have any stockists in the U S now, but it really revolutionized how we do business in Australia. Just one of those things that, , you don't think that's, What the outcome is going to be or the, the reason that you did it, but it actually has been a positive for the business.

[00:16:36] Alex: Cause I think it's allowed us to be, , much tighter in our ordering and to get a read from our stockers, , about what products they like and don't like. And that's another input into, , what our order numbers will be. So yeah, it's an important kind of step in our process now. 

[00:16:55] Mel: Yeah. And. I mean, it's always a balance, right?

[00:16:58] Mel: Keeping your wholesale happy and your retail and still selling retail as well as in your own online business. How do you manage or juggle that? Like, is there any sort of thing there that you could talk on? 

[00:17:10] Alex: , I think having the two separate teams so that there's always, we have a wholesale team who's always advocating for, , our stockers and has always got that wholesale hat on.

[00:17:23] Alex: There are kind of. I suppose that we have internally about, , how long before we would , , take something to discount so that that doesn't, , and we're, we're clear with the stockists about that. So, , for the most part, at least there's no surprises policy. Yeah. And then I think, , I think beyond those kind of guidelines, loosely called guidelines, it's really about having, , a very transparent and open relationship with the stockists as much as you can.

[00:17:53] Alex: And to do that, you need to invest in your, , wholesale team. So we, we only have a team of two, but they, , punch well above their weight. They feel like a team. And, you know, they manage, , close to 400 stockists. I think it is now, , and they've come up with lots of processes, , and systems so that the stores can be jumping in and out and checking what's coming and knowing, you know, all the, all the information is at hand to them.

[00:18:21] Alex: And then, , having that kind of personal relationship as much as possible as well. 

[00:18:26] Mel: Yeah, definitely. And I think it's really important. So you touched on there, the, the US and, , so are most of those stockists that you have now, those 400 or roundabout, , Australia, New Zealand, or where are they distributed?

[00:18:38] Mel: Yes. 

[00:18:38] Alex: Yeah. Yeah. They're all Australia, New Zealand now. , and we might have one in, , Asia. , we did have probably about 20, I think we might've got up to, , don't quote me on that number, in the U. S. , but when COVID started, we decided to pull back from the U. S. because right at the beginning when everyone was, you know, , you know, not sure what COVID would mean for your business.

[00:19:04] Alex: We were looking to kind of minimize risk to us. And so we reduced our order by cutting the U S and we pulled out of our U S warehouse and stopped, , US PR firm and all of that and kind of like consolidated things in Australia. , and stop doing the U S trade shows, obviously, because you can't. And as a result, I think of all those actions, , U.

[00:19:26] Alex: S. stockers have kind of declined in number slowly over the years. We still had, , urban outfitters until quite recently. , but like many of those really big stockers, it might not be that you're getting a great, total profit from them. , they have pretty hard to wear them. Bye. So, it's more a brand awareness thing, exactly., , yeah, , the, , vast majority of those, , stockist numbers now are in Australia and then a smaller number in New Zealand. 

[00:19:53] Mel: And so that's your focus, you sort of like, this is a better strategy for us to focus on this area and just , , keep this rolling and growing and, , you know, refining this area as well. 

[00:20:02] Alex: I think so. In a post COVID era, we've just, , I guess had a realization that the Australian market is plenty big enough for us right now. There is a lot of room to grow still. And, , I think with the uncertainty in recent kind of market conditions can just kind of consolidating what you're doing and focusing on what you do.

[00:20:27] Alex: Well, and improving that around the edges has actually been,, the right strategy for the times. I don't know what will happen in the coming years, whether we would look to expand internationally again or not. I mean, never say never, but, , hopefully that's something that new CEO can help guide us on because it's a really good question.

[00:20:49] Mel: Yeah. And I guess, as you say, like the refining now and you've, you've added that , breadth as opposed to scaling the actual locations, you've edited the brand in that way as well and grown in that way. 

[00:21:04] Alex: Yeah, that's right. And there's lots of different ways that you can achieve growth in your business and depends what your growth ambitions are too.

[00:21:12] Alex: But for us, I guess, , you know, expanding Customer numbers in Australia,, , increasing the cart value of each customer, the return frequency of customers, so focusing on loyalty, , those types of things have seemed to us like the better investment of our, You know, quite small team resources and but and financial budget rather than the more unknown higher risk potentially might be bigger award but higher risk strategy certainly of doing something like international expansion or opening A bunch of retail stores, which we haven't had experience in before.

[00:21:52] Alex: So they're certainly the, probably the two things that we talk about a lot. , One of my 

[00:22:00] Mel: questions, retail, I know I've spoken to Kate and Hailey about that as well. Like, is that an option or is that a possibility? Because you have such a huge range now and you really could fill the whole store so easily.

[00:22:14] Mel: We 

[00:22:14] Alex: definitely could. And look, we would all, we all have a. an amazing vision for what that store would look like. I can only imagine what it would be. Yeah, it would be a great, it would be great. Yeah. I feel like maybe it's inevitable one day, but we have been talking about it for 10 years and it hasn't happened yet.

[00:22:33] Alex: So,, , there's certainly no timeline around it. , and I guess that hesitation has just been that it, I recognize that's a totally different skill set., I don't think that you can be an Ecom, , pure play and then, you know, , you know, just expect to be able to walk into retail and know exactly how that all works.

[00:22:54] Alex: Like it's, , there's a lot, there would be a very steep learning curve there, , but yeah, it's certainly an attractive option for some point, maybe in the future. 

[00:23:03] Mel: Yeah. Well, I guess that's why as well, you just, you know, you have those stockists though, to really support your brand and that physical space because not everyone, you know, a lot of people do want to touch and feel and, , hold, look at the dimensions of something and really product.

[00:23:17] Mel: So you're so important for 

[00:23:20] Alex: that. They're so important. They're certainly not, we don't consider stockists as just another kind of sales It is absolutely a massive marketing opportunity for the brand. , yeah, yeah. I feel like that's of equal importance and we really value, , you know, that it's mainly women who run these stores, all these amazing creative women who do a great job at merchandising the products, , in store for us.

[00:23:47] Alex: It's. The challenge, I suppose, for us that you alluded to is that, um,, ,range is so big now that it's not really possible for, , many stores to carry the whole, to carry the whole range. And there are very few, even that would have a full bed set up to display it. And I think sometimes, , product like ours.

[00:24:10] Alex: , needs that visual representation in situ to see how it kind of will pair back together because it can be, , sometimes print on print can be intimidating to some people, but once you see it all laid out, you can kind of. You know, you don't have to visualize in your head. It's there for you. , so yeah, we're, we're trying to kind of think of other ways to help customers with that and that that's been part of the bed bundle that we launched earlier this year, I think that was, , which is an online kind of visualization.

[00:24:43] Alex: tool, 

[00:24:44] Mel: obviously. , you'll love that stacking it up. And I mean, you sort of had that a little bit in terms of when you used to do your wholesale showings that you would hire that you would hire a space for essentially a house and kit it out with all KIPP products, which was an amazing representation of how you saw the brand and how you saw it, you know, in situ, as you say.

[00:25:05] Alex: Yeah, they were really fun. And we still, , now we've got the, , kind of warehouse studio space in Fitzroy. And so we, , have that set up pretty much all year round as a bit of a showroom, so that stockists can come in and see all of the products there., but I guess, unfortunately no one else can, it's really just for stockists, , which is.

[00:25:27] Alex: Absolutely as it should be. But yeah, the next evolution of that would be to kind of give something similar to regular customers, which would be a retail store. But yeah, anyway, maybe one day. 

[00:25:41] Mel: Maybe we'll watch this space. Just with your, one of the big things that you, you know, focus on and is a big part of your brand is collaborations.

[00:25:49] Mel: Can you, you know, how did that come about and why is that such an important area for you? 

[00:25:55] Alex: Yeah, I think I'm trying to remember who our first collab was. I can't remember if it was Mr. Zimmy or Desert Designs. , and then shortly thereafter, May Gibbs. And so that was a real mix, , of the different collaborations that we've kind of continued to do, in that some of them are licensing agency, , led, like May Gibbs, so that's a licensed, , And your new one is 

[00:26:19] Mel: Rainbow Bright as well, your new one.

[00:26:21] Mel: Rainbow Bright, 

[00:26:22] Alex: yeah, exactly, yeah. So that's a licensing one. , and then others, , collaborations, , With, , brands like Mr. Zimmy and Desert Designs. , I think those early days really proved to us the success of the collaboration model. It was a way for us to inject something new for the customer without us having to, you know, design more of, you know, Maybe what would have felt like the same, it was Kip, but a bit different.

[00:26:51] Alex: And so I think that that was, , appealing to the customer. It gave them some newness, which they're always looking for and an awesome marketing opportunity to cross promote across the brands. So less so with the, um,, licensing agencies, because obviously they don't really have the platform to promote it in the same way, but you're getting a different benefit there, which is that the, , licensed product , has.

[00:27:17] Alex: , brand recognition already, but for those other ones like. Mr. Zimmy and Desert Designs recently and now, and the more, more, , current, Ken Doan, for example, that name recognition and cost promotion that he can do for us is really critical. , and they're so, they're just super fun for us too. I think we are passionate about, , supporting other artists and other brands.

[00:27:43] Alex: And so we always partner with ones that we. And it's a real thrill to be able to work with some of those people. , and that's something that Kate has really led. She's the one who, , will either be reaching out. So we'll come up with, a wishlist of people we might want to work with and she'll be the one who reaches out to them and keeps knocking on the door.

[00:28:03] Alex: I mean, with Ken Doan, she was literally knocking on the door for about seven years before he said yes. , so that was, A massive high five moment for us and a win for persistence. She's also then the one who'll deal with all of the agent, the licensing agencies. So, , they will have a really extensive book of brands that they have available to license.

[00:28:27] Alex: And, , kind of work through them and see, try and uncover ones that might not have been, , covered too much before or that we think we could do in a, in an interesting and different way. 

[00:28:38] Mel: Yeah. Okay. No, that's amazing. And so, yeah, so much, you've, you know, grown so much over this time. What, what advice would you give to anyone starting out now or, you know, trying to get their brand to scale or 

[00:28:52] Alex: grow?

[00:28:53] Alex: Yeah. , . Well, I think we touched on it before. I think the most important thing is just to get started because I've said I've said that many times. I feel like lots of people get, too fixated on having every element of their business plan absolutely perfect before they'll start. And I just don't think that that's ever a reality.

[00:29:13] Alex: You're never gonna have, , all of your ducks lined up before you get going. And even if you think you have, there's going to be things that pop up along the way. So just, just get started. , and then I think for me personally, I was still working when I started the business. And I think that that helped a lot in terms of the, , you know, that we didn't have the financial pressure on the brand to, immediately start making a profit.

[00:29:42] Alex: So just be realistic, I guess, about what your financial circumstances are. And don't, , put too much pressure on yourself that the brand has to. succeed within X amount of time or it's over. I think if you can do it in a way , , cause these things do take time, at least in my quite limited experience, but they do take time.

[00:30:04] Alex: , and so giving yourself the time , , without that kind of additional stress on yourself, I think, I think is really, important. So for me, that was, , about agreeing upfront with my business partners, what the financial investment would be, which was one that we could all definitely afford and manage.

[00:30:21] Alex: And then also that it was a business that I could work around, , my other roles so that I could still have an income. , Kate and Hayley had little kids. , when we started, so for them that they needed it to be something that could work around their young families, their priorities. So I think just kind of, I don't know, being honest with yourself about what you think you can achieve.

[00:30:43] Alex: , cause you don't want to flog yourself and it not be fun. Cause it should be something you enjoy. 

[00:30:48] Mel: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's where you've, you've touched on like, it. you see other people like you've been going for 12 years. It didn't, you didn't have, you know, 20 staff when you started, it's taken time.

[00:31:01] Mel: It's been a, you know, a gradual growth. It hasn't been a, , you know, instant hits or anything like that, that you were all of a sudden, you know, each providing income for every one of you in the first, you know, six months, like it does take time. And, you know, It can, but, and again, same thing with the stockists, like you've grown that gradually and then some are going to come and go like, you know, my store that I originally you were as a stockist, I was a stockist of yours.

[00:31:30] Mel: Sorry. That's no longer even there. Like I sold it, but then it, you know, has no longer there. So it's going to, people are going to come and go. Um,, what would you say your, your percentage of sales between retail and wholesale, like, is it, is it quite an even split or do you have, we're 

[00:31:44] Alex: about 

[00:31:46] Mel: a bit over 60 percent retail 

[00:31:48] Alex: and 40 percent wholesale.

[00:31:50] Mel: Yeah. 

[00:31:50] Alex: Okay. 

[00:31:51] Mel: Yeah. And, but that's probably flipped over time as well in terms of. 

[00:31:55] Alex: Yeah. I think the retail side has, has grown. , yeah. So that's in percentage. As e commerce 

[00:32:03] Mel: sort of has evolved in this. 

[00:32:05] Alex: Yeah, it's certainly not been, , a strategy that we've gone, okay, we're going harder in retail and we're reducing our investment or our team resource or anything in wholesale.

[00:32:16] Alex: It's just been, , a natural progression for the business and yeah, that feels about right for the, for the time being. I don't think we're looking for it to kind of tip much more than that. We're pretty happy where it's at. 

[00:32:28] Mel: Yeah. Yeah, no, amazing. Thank you so much, Alex, for joining me and sharing so much valuable information.

[00:32:34] Mel: I, , really appreciate it. And yeah, I'd love hearing about, you know, where you're at now and where things could possibly go. I'm looking forward to seeing what is next and we'll keep a close eye on all your different product mixes and categories that you bring out. And, , yeah, I love seeing what is going to happen.

[00:32:52] Alex: I should add as well. , I think another tip is talking to people like you who can share advice and real life experience in having a business is really invaluable because I don't know, you can read theoretical stuff online, but talking to people who have lived and breathed it and advising other small businesses in similar circumstances, because it's quite , specifics, small business, , I think is, is absolutely a must do for when you're starting out.

[00:33:27] Alex: So that would be my other tip. And thank you for all the advice you've given us over the years too. We always appreciate it. 

[00:33:34] Mel: I love the conversations. It's always fun to have the chats and then even that, like touching on that, thank you for saying that. That's amazing. And even that, like, you know, I think a few years ago when COVID first hit, like I came in to help.

[00:33:45] Mel: Or your stock is like, it was like a thing, like, how can you support your brands more or sorry, your stores more. And that was one thing that we did together that really helped them, you know, figure out some other ways to help them grow and you're supporting them by offering that as well. Yeah. Amazing.

[00:34:02] Mel: Thank you so much, Alex. And I'll let you get back to , your day today. And yeah, really appreciate it. And I can't wait to share. No worries. Thanks so much. Thank you so much for listening to thelotco business podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please make sure you subscribe to receive future episodes as they are released.

[00:34:19] Mel: And I'd be so, so grateful for a review on Apple podcast. If you would like a copy of the show notes or any of the links mentioned today, please jump onto my website at thelotco.com. au forward slash podcast. Have an amazing week. And I look forward to chatting to you again soon.