The Creative Journey of Concrete Jellyfish with Rene Skelton

In this episode, I chat with Rene Skelton of Concrete Jellyfish. 

We dive into the challenges of running a small business, to the unique ways Renee maintains her creativity.
We talk about the origins, growth, and innovations of her fashion accessories brand Concrete Jellyfish.
Rene shares insights about transitioning her business to Italy, the importance of community, dealing with production challenges, and her passion for creating handmade accessories. 
The episode also highlights her unique approach to product design, the balance between creativity and business operations, and the importance of setting proper pricing from the start. 

Overall, this episode offers an inspiring look at Rene's dedication to her craft and the personal touches that set Concrete Jellyfish apart.

We also find out how much Rene hates pop ups. And she wishes she started collecting emails a long time ago!

00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome

00:24 Challenges of Small Business and Motherhood

01:06 What is Concrete Jellyfish?

02:12 The Journey of Concrete Jellyfish

03:36 Building a Community Through Business

05:31 Moving the Business to Italy

06:43 Logistics and Operations

12:27 Creative Process and Design Inspiration

21:12 Wholesale vs. Direct-to-Consumer

25:49 Pricing for Sustainability

27:52 Investing in Quality Equipment

28:29 Innovative and Unique Creations

29:57 Building a Supportive Team

31:07 Marketing and Email Strategies

36:56 Balancing Work and Personal Life

43:56 Future Plans and New Ventures

47:54 Creating Joy and Excitement

You can check out Rene's instagram here @concretejellyfishco and her website at
https://concretejellyfish.co/ where her new collection has just been released.  Check out her innovative light weight hoops skins here

Transcript

Hello and welcome to today's podcast. My name is Melissa Robbins. I have a special guest today here. I have Renee Skelton from Concrete Jellyfish. I am so excited to have her here because I have been following her for a really long time and I just wanted to, yeah, share with everyone else your journey as well.

Welcome along Renee. 

 Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I'm excited to be here from an Airbnb in the middle of nowhere in the middle of nowhere. And, and we've been through some sort of, um, trials and tribulations to get this to going, right? Because I've had lots happening  as per usual. The small business juggle is so real.

And I feel like when you're a mom with young children, sometimes that's even like enhanced. Yeah. More than usual. Obviously. Uh, yes. We just had about some sickness after sickness, after sickness. And so juggling business life and then that, and then of course it's like everything comes at once and then guests turned up at our house and it's just like, it becomes a Woody Allen film or something where it's just like this comedy of errors one after the other.

But anyway, we've made it, we made it, we're here, we made it. That's right. Can you tell, um, tell us a little bit about what is concrete jellyfish?  What is it? I don't, I, whenever people ask me, it's so funny. They always like, what do you do? I'm, I make stuff. I think it's still like every artist is so self-conscious when people ask this question.

But, so basically I make stuff, I make earrings predominantly. I make jewelry. I have made, um, I've made clothes. I've made a whole range of different stuff. But predo predominantly like a, a fashion retail brand that focuses on accessories is what I would say. Yeah. All handmade made by me. Yeah. So I was just going to say, and you make them all right.

So, um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, probably. I was born with giant man hands. I always make a big joke about it. And actually when we were just in Cannes a few days ago, we were like going along, you know, the Hollywood star thing and we were putting our hands in. And I was like, mine were the size of like all the dudes and then there's all these petite little actresses and I'm like got these giant gorilla hands going over the top.

Um, but so I think I was just born to make things. And when I was little, I did that as well. That's what I did to fill in my time was just making stuff, anything and everything. I loved it. So how long has Concrete Jellyfish been around as it is like now what I was just thinking about that yesterday because I was like Well, I'm gonna have to answer this question.

Um Eight years.  Okay. Yeah Hey, you've evolved as you said in that time to be all a few different things and found ways of where your groove is I guess a little yeah. Yeah. Well, I kind of it was kind of like a We had a really good start. I don't know. Uh, I think I've, I've answered this question previously with people like, you know, how did you, what, when you, um, yeah, when you, when you began, how did it go?

And we just got lucky with kind of like a few different things, timing, market, economy. Um, I happened to get a few kind of connections and leads early that were to my advantage. And from there, so kind of like from the get go, I kind of found a rhythm and found a place in the market and expanded quite quickly.

Um, so I just, I got lucky. I got lucky. I say a lot of hard work, like an incredible amount of hard work, lots of like, Start at 6 a. m. Finish at midnight every single day for like the first two years. I was working incredible amount of hours. Um, but with that, there was a bit of luck, I think as well. Yeah.

And, but you've been from the start , as I said, I followed you for a long time. Um, but from the start, like you've shown up for your brand, right? Like you are your brand. You've, you've being the person talking about it, designing it, as you said, um, showcasing, um, the story behind the, how you come up with your collections, your fashion and all of that.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think so I've had previous businesses and, um, my husband and I, my partner at Paolo, we had a, um, a food business actually where  Like biggest foodies. All we do is eat. We like eat and make stuff. And I mean, making food is about the making, isn't it? It's using the hands. Um, and so we used to, we had a food business in Brisbane actually.

Um, and it was called Two Wheels and a Handlebar and we had this cafe and we got a bit of a cult following. And so we would like sell out of lunches. My husband's a chef, so that helped. Um, and, but with that and around that we created a really strong community. And when we actually finished that business.

There was, we had lots of people saying how sad they were because we decided to move back to Italy because this isn't the first time I've lived in Italy. We kind of jumped around a bit. And so that time we closed the business, moved back to Italy and there was all these people saying, Oh, it was so sad that you're going because it has, we have this community around it.

And it became kind of like this, uh, connection point for all these different workers. And with that experience and a few other, um, experiences throughout my career, I just realized the importance.  And the real need for a sense of community. So whenever I create anything or do anything, I want people to really feel connected to it. 

I thought when I was starting this business, one of the fundamentals was that I wanted to have a role in because I wanted people to feel connected to it. Um, yeah. And I think that that warmth that you get, it kind of fills a little void that we all often feel in this disconnected world and that can create a really sustainable brand.

And so that was one of my initial approaches. It was an intentional move. I wanted to be a part of it. I wanted to be the heart and soul of it. And I want people to feel a connection to the things that I make. Yeah. I love that. And that comes through definitely in the way that your, um, your visuals, your videos, um, and yeah, sharing your story and you're just talking about then that you've, um, had a big move.

When was that? A year or so ago? When did you move to? Oh, well that's, we've moved to Italy years, um, previously, but this time two years ago now, just over two and a half years ago, we've been back in Italy.  Gee that's flown. Feels like it was yesterday. Oh, and, and what, what's the reason for that? Or that's something you always wanted to do.

And cause you've got young kids like where, what happened to bring that about?  My, my husband, Paolo is from Italy and so we do this thing, we have a tag team, we kind of, it's like your turn, my turn, your turn, my turn, uh, and it was kind of his turn and my turn was very long. I took seven years on the last one. 

COVID thrown in there, so probably just added to it. Now you, yeah, now you've just taken the piss, like come on.  So in the end, we, you know, because it's hard when you are in a relationship, an international relationship, because someone's family is always missing out. And when you have kids, that means half the family is missing out on seeing those kids grow.

So my, my mom is like devastated that I'm over here, but, um, Paolo's family and his extended family is so excited to have us here. So that was a real driving force. And I wanted my children to be fluent in Italian again.  That's their heritage. That's their culture. Um, and so, and now they are two years in and they're delightfully fluent in a second language.

And prior to that, they didn't speak a word of Italian. So that's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. So that was the big move. So how did you go about actually moving your business there? Like, do you still work the same way? Like, how did you go about that?  No, yeah, look, I, we thought about it long and hard and we actually, I was naive to be honest.

I thought it would be a lot easier than it was in the end. Um, and we had a lot, we had a longer downtime than I had expected. So we had a downtime of about nine to 10 months, which for a small business is pretty good.  Yeah, it's pretty intense, pretty grueling. Uh, and that was to do with machinery was delayed in its shipment and then machinery, some of my very expensive machinery that I worked hard to pay off in the early days of my business turned up completely broken.

Um, they had damaged it. So then I had to get a whole new, um, piece of equipment. I had to source it over here.  Uh, so it had its challenges. The good thing about having a small business and a, and a small business that is, um, like, yeah, I suppose handmade is you just need a studio and you need a courier.

Because the market now is so online and digital and shipping, I ship all over the world, my earrings go, yeah, as far as they go to the States, they go to parts of Asia, they go to all through Europe and Australia. And so,  with that, as long as I have a postman, Nearby, I can kind of, I can, I can move around.

And so  the idea was we'll just move the business. And then there was all the administrative tackling, like the, the bureaucracy of changing the business from Australia to companies and all this kind of stuff, which is all very boring and very tedious. Um, but we managed it in the end, but it took longer than expected.

So that was a bit. Okay. And I guess that's where, you know, having a lightweight product that's small makes it a lot easier as well. That you knew, it sure does. And that it sure does. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The only things that really changed, I suppose that you have to keep in mind when you are shifting is, um, taxes.

So there was a few, um, additional import export taxes that we hadn't taken into consideration. Um, and I don't like to, I like to try and absorb as many costs as I can to kind of keep my prices very reasonable for customers. Um, but so I've had to absorb. Yeah, quite a bit of,  yeah, more than I expected.

That's fine. Because where you're sending them? Like, is it the particular places you're sending? Yeah, it's to do with import. Yeah. I mean, it's really boring. So the input export taxes. So like importing particular products and materials that I need to produce my, um, my, my jewelry. And yeah, so like base material I'm talking about.

Um, and then on top of that, the, then exporting it back to Australia,  We did the maths and we had a look and we wanted to initially do it where we could just, um, do third party, like, shipping, so you have your, uh, third party logistics, your 3PL, um, based in Europe, but it wasn't working to our advantage because Australia is so far from everything. 

Yes, it's, and 90 and 90% of my customers are in Australia. Yeah. So  in the end, we decided that we had to find a third party logistics in Australia. Yeah. And so now we ship all of our goods to Australia in one ship. And then they get from there. Exactly. Exactly. That's good. So we had to do a lot of like.

Yeah, a lot of calculations, a lot of juggling what was best, not just for me, but mainly what was best for my customers, because at the end I can bear some costs that I would have to pass those on. And so I found the most, um, reliable, economic, efficient way of getting our products to our customers. So nothing felt like it was changing.

Yeah. And so how do you do that now in terms of, I saw on your Instagram and by the time this comes out, it might've already been released, but you've got like certain release dates. And so do you get it all ready and sent to  wherever it is in Australia and then that's ready to go for that release date?

Exactly. Exactly. So it lands in Australia about 10 days before my release date. So it means we're having to like work our little butts off, get everything ready, pack it up, ship it. It gets there. And then I have that kind of like, break in the, in the making cycle. Uh, well, we, we still continue to make other, like the new collection, then the, not the one that's about to be released, but the next collection, um, in that downtime as well.

Um, but I do that time to do marketing and showing all the goods and how they look and et cetera.  Yeah. So we have a real rhythm to it that I have to stick to and timeframes that I stick to, which I think people like, I think people in their mind have this idea that, you know, when you have a creative business, it's a bit more free flowing, but I am very structured in my approach.

Yeah. I give myself key deadlines. I stick to them. It's all very boring in that tight, in that side of the business. I like to keep it moving along, but yeah, yeah. But that's, that's how you obviously work it around your life as well, because then you can schedule the dates, you can schedule the timeframes or the, all the, the different types of work that you're doing around what you're doing in your life as well.

Right. Yeah, exactly. And I really do. I have schedules around making schedules for marketing schedules, for  Um, like packing, shipping schedules. We have it all kind of like, it's not written down because I'm  rubbish at doing it in like an actual schedule format. Yeah. Anyone that works with me is always like, what or where are we at?

And I'm like, I know. Why don't you know? Oh, wait a minute. And so then, so I, but I'm a real chatter, real communicator. So I'm just like every day it's like, all right, this, this is done, let's go. This is what's on tomorrow. This is what we're doing the day after. And how often do you release new ranges?  It used to be more regularly in Australia, uh, and we're two years in and I'm still finding my groove here.

So,  we used to do it about every six to eight weeks and here it's been literally every eight to nine weeks, really. But I want to get that back down to every six to eight weeks. So we're working on that this year, trying to  get that in more of a rhythm. 

With your designs, how, how do you come up with all your different collections? How different are all the collections? I guess that's another question too. Like, do you release new styles or is it the same style in new prints or patterns? How do you do that? Yeah, look, it depends. I do rerun. So, so sometimes if there's a, there's a favorite style or something that really worked, I'll bring it back in new colorways or I'll just rerun, like bring that same product back a few times.

Um, but. I, I'm a real change monkey. I really, I thrive on creating new things. And so  I tend to create new collections each time as an underlying theme. I suppose I often, I love my florals, but that's because I think within the accessories and, um, particularly earrings, I think florals really work. And I think if you look back historically, um, through jewelry design, you would See why, and you can see how it is a significant element.

So I use florals, birds, a lot. Um, that's mainly cause like I'm an absolute birder.  I love birds and bird nut,  and I'm also a cat lady. So go figure. That's a wild combination. Um, but, and then, yeah, and then I do abstract. I try to.  So I definitely have underlying themes, but then I do do a new release with a, with a, with a particular style.

Like I might see a painting or come across something and I'm like, gee, that really feels right to me. Um, I talk it about, like, I, I talk about it like the sixth sense. You know how people walk. There's that movie. I'm always like, I see earrings because I walk around and I might see something and I'm like, oh my God, that's an earing.

I have to create it. And so then I go in. Yeah. So it's often something called jump out at me. And then from that one little seed. Well, then something bigger will come. So, yeah. Yeah. I love that. And so that just obviously keeps it fresh for you, keeps it exciting for you, that you have got that ability to have your, almost as you say, like, cause often people get caught up in the running of the business and they don't have.

They lose touch with that creative side of what they started the business for. I guess that's where, the way you're running it, like it gives you that creative side still. And I'm sure it gets squished down and you'd probably need to do it more. It does. And some, I feel like sometimes I'm really like, Oh, I've got to just shake it off.

And so like, even me just having these few days off and coming away, because we had our visitors, they've been really good. I have to kind of like, um, yeah. Clean the slate a little bit and have a fresh start to kind of get back in the, the creative mindset. Cause I think that's something you really have to protect and nurture because  the one, there's like a few things that stifle creativity, money stress.

So like having to sell, having to make that money to pay for, I don't know, whether it be new stock, new materials, like just the economic stress of a business, making it work. That is such a stifler for creativity I've found. Um, and then the other thing is stress. So burnout, being overworked and just having to run, run, run to meet like production targets and things like that.

And once again, that's an economic thing because you have to obviously sell a certain amount to make business economically viable. Um, but yeah, so they definitely, so you really have to kind of nurture that creative part and not let those other things kind of cramp that style, which is a juggle. It's so far.

So far, I'm going to cross fingers, touch it so far, I've managed to kind of balance it. Yeah. Well, that's good. But also, as you say, like you've, you work differently now than what you did when you first, in the first two years, like it's, it doesn't all happen straight away either. Like it does evolve,  um, find your rhythm or you, you've obviously got repeat customers.

That's a big part of your business. I have a lot of, yeah, long term customers. I have so many long term customers. I have some customers that were my customers from my cafe, believe it or not, who actually followed me into my new business and that was so supportive. And so they've been long term customers from even before Concrete Jellyfish existed.

Um, and then I have, yeah, lots of customers from like first collection, first range, and they're still collecting today. Which is just, it blows, it gives me goosebumps thinking about it, to think how special that is that someone wants to invest so much into your journey as well. And you just hope that you're giving enough back I suppose.

But, um,  yeah, like how delightful, how delightful, lots of repeat customers, like I would say probably even I think 60 or 70 percent of my customer base is always repeat. And then each time I'm getting that additional new 30 percent and then there's the turnover in those steps as well of like some people dropping off and bringing up like that. 

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's, that's interesting in itself. And I think that's the thing as well, like, um, understanding your business, cause not everyone's business is going to be the same in that regard. Not everyone's going to have repeat customers to pay some, depends on what they have, they sell, but you build a community around it.

You involving people in the design and selection process and how you come about it. Um, I saw your latest one, I think it was yesterday or the day before you're talking about the, The hoop version. I'm not sure what, what you called it. I can't remember now. Oh, the hoop skins. Oh my God, I'm so pumped for these freaking hoop skins.

I'm like, it took me years to get to them, which is so silly. 'cause in the end it's so, it's such a simple concept. Yeah. And I don't know why I didn't get to it earlier. But I was obviously trying to overcomplicate things and I keep telling myself the same thing that my sister said, keep it simple, stupid, and it's such a silly thing, but I do it to myself all the time when I'm trying to design something.

I'm like, stop it, stop it, Renee, get out of your head, keep it simple, stupid. And so  I, I, I. Yeah, I finally came to the hoop skins. I, I am obsessed with them. Yeah. Yes. What are they? What are they made? What are they made from? I kind of remember what you put. Oh my God. So it's a handmade. It's so cool. So I'm always trying to find new materials as well.

Especially, and part of that, I think, um, yeah, you'd mentioned in like some of the, the interview, like, Kind of information you're saying, you know, why do you, do you find being innovative to, is it because you like change or to keep ahead of the game? Or I think being in a small business, one of, one of the biggest and most important things is to always, first the innovation for sure, because you need to stand out in a crowd.

There's a lot of people trying to sell earrings. There's a lot of people trying to have a small business, fashion, retail.  So to be innovative and always coming up with something fresh and new keeps you ahead of that game, you're like that little bit ahead. And so I'm always trying to find new materials.

Um, because, you know, I'm not the first person to make resin. I'm not the first person to make flower earrings or bird earrings. I would never claim to be, but I am the first person to do it in my way with my fresh touch and my fresh approach. Um, and so this new material is a handmade artisan material from Italy.

Uh, and they actually use it to make like the crazy expensive, like handmade glasses. I was going to say, is it like the, yeah, it's true. Cause I have to take a lot of, um, sunglasses and glasses in. Exactly. Italy is famous for its eyewear. I've even produced, I've actually had a line, which people keep asking me to do it again.

And I am in touch with the. The, um, the manufacturer. I've just got to go back to him again. He does handmade frames and, um, and I made a collection with him, but so it's the same material, um, that I use for the glasses is the same type of material used and applied in a different way. Love it. And from my research, no one else.

Yes. Globally has used. And that's like, yeah, globally has used this material in this way. So I'm very excited to start bringing it into my collections.  Love that. And it's very lightweight too, which will make it easy to It's so lightweight. This is my ultimate, like, my game, my aim in life is just the world's most lightweight, largest earring.

Because I see these earrings on the market all the time. Now obviously I don't. I don't do like cast metals. I don't do, um, precious metals  or even like coated, um, brasses where they do like, they, you know, they cast them into a mold, injection mold, and then they will coat them afterwards. And they've got these beautiful, they're so freaking heavy.

It's like you get these beautiful earrings. They're so heavy. You can wear them for a few hours to an event and that's it. And I think that's so sad to not be able to get the full use out of this, like if you're spending all of that money and you're so passionate and in love with this design, I want you to be able to wear it like as much as you want without any discomfort.

And so I'm always trying to improve size versus weight ratio to the point of like, it's like a feather. And when I was wearing those hoop skins, I was wearing the statement ones in Cannes a few nights ago, we went out, you know, with our Australian friends that were visiting, and I was wearing them and I, I touched my ears and she's like, Oh, what's wrong?

And I was like, I thought I'd forgotten to put earrings in. And then I had this hallelujah moment. I was like, Oh my God. Praise the Lord. I've done it. It's so great. I couldn't even tell you where I knew. I couldn't even tell I was wearing them and they're giant. It was like, Oh yeah. The Holy Grail of earring making.

It was very cool. Oh, that's super exciting. Well, I'll definitely share a link in the show notes to those ones for people. So  everybody get on board.  And so that was a question I had for you. I don't know where you're at with this. Do you still wholesale or have you ever wholesaled or you just sell DTC ?

I did wholesale. I did wholesale, um, to galleries mainly. Yeah. Um, so I was in like the National Gallery, in the National Gallery of Australia, or no, the National Museum of Australia,  State Library, Museum of Brisbane,  um, a few different like galleries and some of the smaller galleries and a few shops. Um, at the moment I've dropped right back down to one wholesale, one stockist because I wasn't, I was, I was struggling with keeping up with production.

Yeah.  And, and so, yeah, and so in the end I've, I've dropped off, like a lot of the stockists have dropped off and I've just got one lady.  Just because basically I love her and she's wonderful in Brisbane that I've kept wholesaling to and I'm doing a collaboration for  the National Museum of Australia who is about to do an installation on Pompeii, a big  show like exhibition on Pompeii.

And so this is the lady that I had a previous relationship with, I used to wholesale to them, and she approached me saying would I do a special collection for them so I'm about to do that as well. Um, But external to that, I've, I do all just retail now, no wholesale.  Yeah. And I would say 98 percent is retail direct selling.

Yeah. Okay. And I think that's the thing. Like I, I love wholesale and I think it's a good, um, avenue for, for sales and it, but it does depend on what, you know, what your business is and what your model is of how you're selling. And also if you have a, you know, 60, 70 percent of people coming back to buy again and again and again, it's a lot easier to be direct to consumer.

Exactly. Exactly. And you know what? It served me really well when I was starting out. Yeah. Um, and I think I found like for a lot of brands, that's what it is. It's a really good tool when you're establishing and then you don't want to break down those relationships. And the one thing I would say is me dropping off my wholesale has dropped off my social media growth because you're not having as much visibility, visibility as new clients.

They're not coming in and then jumping on board for sure. So now I'm having to explore.  Just, just this year, I'm going to explore some new, um, I don't know, approaches to try and expand my customer base. Yeah. Um, but yeah, but yeah, no wholesale is good for certain aspects. The other thing is when it's a handmade product.

Um,  I think it's all down to numbers, sit down and crunch those numbers and see what is economically more viable for you and then weigh off the pros and cons, especially in terms of like marketing, you know, name brand recognition, getting your name out there. Cause that's also another cost. I think you should attribute like another pro, um, for the wholesale, but economically it has to stack up.

I see all these brands and some of them, I, I, I often can say to my partner, I'm like, How, how are these women selling these small, like female lead, how are they selling them? Wholesale? Yeah. When the, when the retail, the cost per piece is so low, they mustn't be paying themselves a livable wage. I just, I don't, oh, my business model is completely out and I've like, I've somehow stuffed up my, my administrative costs, but I don't think so.

I think a lot of people are just cutting themselves short and trying to get a foot in the door But at the expenses themselves, and I don't know if that's a good approach either.  No, there's definitely, um, I, I see through, you know, the clients I work with, there's a lot of people who aren't pricing properly or aren't accounting for a lot of things or aren't, you know, looking at the, um, the right things in their cost of goods and all that sort of stuff as well.

But it's definitely something people can work, work on and, um, so it's something that you need to allow margin for that, you know, customer, customer acquisition. Right.  And from the start, because I see these brands and it's really hard to raise your prices. Yeah. Like to drop your prices is actually a lot easier.

Like you can slowly decrease the price of your product, but to, to slowly increase people notice, like I had to add, I think an extra five Australian dollars onto some of my larger pieces. And that's because we all know the economies. And inflation has caused a lot of issues and I thought like five bucks is really modest five Australian dollars I hadn't raised my prices in four years  I thought jeez like that's all right and people a few people asked me why and contacted me and I was like because I can't, I can't, I can't, everything costs more I'm paying like double for some things and taking that cost and that's the nice thing So because I've priced my pieces,  um, I would, I would say fairly, I mean, I do have some people saying, look, your, your jewelry and stuff is expensive.

And I'm like, well, no, it's not actually. If you look at like large scale brands that are getting the manufactures.  In all parts of the world, their cost per unit is really low on their production and they're charging 10 times up to 10 times more than I charge for my earring purely because they're getting a brand name on it.

And I'm like, well, I'm hand making these two giant gorilla hands. I'm making each piece for you.  I like, I have to charge accordingly or I can't sustain my brand without sustain my business.  And that's the thing. I mean, not, I think anyone who's in the business understands that, but definitely, you know, a lot of consumers just looking at, you know, they're, they're not comparing how many units you're making compared to someone else.

Like they don't understand that.  But also like I'm paying myself a livable wage where a lot of people who get it manufactured are paying the workers in those places.  Not what we would consider a livable wage. Exactly. So that's the, that's the other.  Yeah. That's the hidden cost that people don't like. And you know what?

If people don't like it, they can buy something else because yours are unique and you know, they're getting what they get. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I think too. And so that's why, that's why I was saying like with, with the business, I think you should price it correctly from the outset and give yourself enough kudos to go, no, you know what, like, I'm not just like, I'm paying myself a livable wage.

I'm making something unique and special. I'm putting all that hard work, energy, all those sacrifices of having a small business into this little product that you're buying. Like, I'm going to price it correctly. I'm going to be proud of that. And I'm going to say it's a fair price. Yeah. And if you do that from the start, then if there is any fluctuations in the market as well, which is what I've experienced, I've been able to bear the costs of some of the ups and downs without having to pass that on.

But if your margins are so tight, Any of those fluctuations you have to kind of pass on or then your livable wage becomes an unlivable wage. So it needs to be at a, at a certain level that you can sustain the highs and lows in small businesses. I think the practicalities really have to come into it.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, you want it to be a business that makes a profit, not, not one that just is a hobby that you're just making to give people. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, exactly. And when you have a small business and it is like, it's our, you know, that's our family income. Um, and so it has to be, yeah, we have to be able to draw economically from it as well as being able to do so.

I feel very lucky because I get to, you know, draw a livable wage and enjoy what I do. It's delightful. It's like, uh, yeah, it's worked out well for us. Yeah, it's a win win. But you built it like that. And, and so what would you suggest to others like getting started and investing from, investing in from the start of their journey? 

Yeah, look, get really good equipment from the get go and if that means taking out, I mean, this is my personal experience, so I would never want to give any financial advice to anyone else. Um, but I took out like a lease on a lot of my equipment and then I paid that off, um, and I paid it off aggressively.

So then I, so as your business grows, but investing in good equipment, um, and machinery up front is what's going to help you grow the business in terms of just, that's just technical making. Um,  what else would I say? Yep. Price accordingly, um, be proud of your product,  do something different. Don't copy. I have a pet hates.

I think I, I, I do get frustrated with Um, yeah, design or intellectual property theft. Um, but just stand on your own two feet to something that you love. And the more you create something different, unique, and you're pushing your own boundaries, the more you're going to get back from that business personally.

But also the bigger response you're going to get from your customer base. Do something innovative that stands out and it's different from other people. Just because it's you. Yeah. And keep doing that, as you say, like keep innovating, keep being creative, keep, um, you know, allowing time for that creative juices to flow type of thing as well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Just, you can just, and growing as you grow with you, as your business goes along, you grow and you reinvent yourself over and over and over. I know I definitely reinvent myself almost every release and sometimes. I feel like it's not even, it might be a step sideways and then I come back in line and I'm trying something and come back, but as long as you're always trying and giving it a go, I think in the end, you'll slowly find that path upward. 

Sometimes it feels like you're going sideways for a long time, but then you might shoot up. So, you know, it's about. Yeah, constantly pushing, even when you feel  persistent, yeah. And even when you feel like maybe you can't, you just keep working through it and you will get there. Yeah. And so I did see a reel on this, funny reel on this that you made, but, um, I was going to ask you, what does your team look like?

Like who do you have working for you and or for you, or have you had in the past as well? I did have Kelly. Kelly, where are you? I miss Kelly. Kelly was in Australia. Kelly worked for me, um. full time. She was just delightful and amazing. Uh, and then my partner Paolo worked with me full time  as well. So the busiest we've been is the three of us full time working.

Um, you know, Monday to Friday, uh, what time eight to five was the standard hours. I would obviously work more, but that was, yeah. Uh, and that worked really well. Um, and then now we've kind of dropped that back, but I've just been interviewing and trialing a girl here in Italy and she's wonderful. So hopefully that means I'll get some more help back on, back on board.

Yeah. And what sort of role would you outsource to her?  Uh, so she'll be making with me. So she'll be doing a lot of the, like a studio assistant role. Yeah. Is what I, is what I, is what I generally feel. Um, the creativity I like to do. That's my fun part. I'm like, I don't want to give that bit up.  I get to do the fun bit.

If I get, if I'm like, if I have to do the finance and the admin and all that boring stuff, then I get the fun stuff too. Um, yeah. But, and then there, and then I'm trying to maybe look at getting some help with, um, the marketing side, because I historically have been very,  um, lazy and have never approached, I haven't used influencers, not once,  I haven't used influencers.

I haven't used any paid ads until recently. I think my total ad expenditure for my entire business has been about a hundred dollars. Um, and I have an opportunity there, opportunity there, opportunity. I know opportunity for growth. That's what I spoke to someone about it the other week. And I was like, well, wow, this is a great base for you.

If you haven't done anything, I'm like, no, I've been really rubbish at it. Mainly just because I think I've been a bit fearful of it because I don't, I don't know that area very well. That's not my area of expertise. Um, and so I'm going to try and get some extra help in that as well. Yeah. So, studio assistant and then some help in that side and then we'll see how we go there.

Yeah, and and what sort of um, how many subscribers would you have like on your list? So obviously you've built up over a long time. So you do use On like my email subscribers?  Oh, it's not that big because I've been rubbish at that. I only put a link on my website to join an email list about four months ago.

Oh my gosh. Isn't that shocking? I know. Look at you. You're like having a conniption for me. You're like Renee, what are you doing?  I know. I know. I'm terrible, aren't I? Well, again, it's another opportunity. Come on. Thank you. I love you being so polite right now. very much. Um, uh, when you're really thinking, you bloody idiot.

I know. Look, uh, the amount of people who I do speak to and, you know, I think I had one, uh, a year or so ago now, and she had a hundred and. She had 108, 000 something followers on Instagram, but she had 1, 000 email subscribers. And I was like, well, I mean, I'm about what am I? I'm like 44th. I'm about 43, 000 followers.

And I want that to grow. I just, I just, um,  I feel like I'm still settling into Italy. It's terrible. It's been quite an adjustment with lots of things, but I would like to grow that because we had a lot of growth early and then it's stagnating, but social media is a whole other world from eight years ago when I started, like it's really hard to get new followers now.

Um, Well, it's a different game, you just, it's got to, you've got to go about it differently. Yeah, I know. And I'm, I just don't think I'm equipped to do it. I think at the start I was, and I think I was fine and great. And I think now I'm just out of my depth. And so I'm going to have to get some help with that.

So I've only got maybe two and a half thousand subscribers on email.  That should be your next push to get all your, as many of those 45, 000 on to your email list. And I don't even know. Yeah. I suppose that's good. I don't even know if that's a decent number as well. Like I would have no gauge. That is, that  is okay.

That's okay. But you could, for how many other followers you have and how many return customers you have, it'd be great to have more. Yeah. And the fact that I've been going for eight years. Definitely. Yeah. I know. I know. I've just been really like literally no link on my website at all.  And I didn't,   pop up you need a pop up pop up, you need a pop up,I know, it's so, I don't, you know, this is part of my thing, it's terrible too.

I feel bad. Like, I don't want to annoy anyone. I hate fucking pop ups. Pop ups shit me to tears. So I'm like, well, I don't want to shit anyone. I don't want to annoy anyone, so I don't want to do a pop up.  What do you do with a pop up though? You just close it, right? If you don't like it. Yeah, but that's annoying.

It's not that bad. I just want to be the least annoying  brand out there, but it's just so much to my detriment, I know. And then, like, I don't want to annoy anyone by sending them lots of emails. So, like, people that are on my list I reckon you get an email once every six to eight weeks. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Okay. Well,  you've been able to run your business, um, you know, without doing that. So what I would say is that it's, I think, um, as you said, Instagram, From years ago was different. And so you were able to grow that, which is awesome.  But also now less people see like, even though you've got 45, 000, no, no one sees I can see this. 

So, yeah, that's why you need all these other things now as well, because, um, you know, you, you want to keep. You want, you've got control of when you send the email, whereas you, you can't control necessarily the, um, no. The algorithm or whatever the hell they call it. No, I know. And it's really hard. Like I really feel like my stats have, ah,  I'm getting a quarter of the stats that I used to get, um, so a few years ago in terms of likes and things like that.

Um, but I am still getting a lot compared to others, which is.  I just think, well, I don't know what I'd do if I wasn't even getting this, the small amount that I, that I do get. Um, but saying that, even though all these things have changed, I've, I'd still, I've still been selling out of my product. Yeah. We've still been producing to our capacity.

Um, and I, I'm not talking small numbers either. Um, we used to make about 4, 000 pairs of earring a month. Yeah, and it was six weeks and we would sell every single pair. And whilst we've dropped that down, that's just purely because of our making capacity, we're still selling at a really high level. And I think in this economic, um, environment, I'm so proud that I can still sustain that.

Yeah.  And you know what, I think why I wanted to talk to you as well as part of, you know, like you,  people see other people running their business and be like, well, I have to do it this way. I have to do it this way, but you  chosen to do it the way that suits you and your life and your lifestyle, not doing a pop up.

Cause I don't want to piss people off. If you want to do that, go right ahead. I know. I've got to look at me. I'm sorry. I'm like forward ahead of the trends. No pop up. Oh my gosh. But yeah, you, you've been able to like, and I think that's part of, you know, success as well. Just knowing that  your success comes from not just your financials, but the lifestyle you get to lead as well and the choices you get to make. 

Yeah. Look, I mean, I still don't have much of a, I mean, my balance is still completely, I work a lot, but I, I, I choose to put all of that energy into, um, the creativity and the actual production and making sure that that is really. Yeah. That's my, that's my home. That's why I need help in the other now. I'm like, right.

Okay. I need to just go outsource some of these things that I clearly, and maybe if you just outsource that guilt of the pop up, like I was going to say, I'm going to message your girl and be like, okay, this is how often it needs to come on. This is  honestly, I read some stat the other day, uh, the different timing of your pop up.

If you have it come on again, more than once, like your, your subscribers will go through it. Go through the rope anyway. We, we won't even get into that now, but it definitely is harder. It just blows my mind. This is like a,  but I also feel a bit icky. Like I'm a bit, as much as I like, love social because it creates a community, that to me is the, the, the basis of yeah, where and how I would use it.

I'm not particularly huge on actual, like on. Social media, like TikTok and all of these things and how the impact they have on society as a whole and, and the excessive marketing and the consumerism. And I'm like, I'm such a contradiction really. I like hilarious. I'm like this little artistic maker. I just want to make stuff and sell my pretty things and have my studio. 

But not necessarily have to be part of this huge, um, capitalist chain of like sell, sell, sell. But I am at the same time, so I just have to eat my words.  If I want to make my stuff and I want to be that crazy weird artist sitting there going,  I have to be a part of that world. It is, you kind of have to, yeah. 

Lots of balance, you know, but still, as you say, doing it your way and, um, I would definitely recommend more than every six weeks an email, but maybe only every three, like, let's, I mean,  you know, let's start somewhere, um, but yeah. I sent an extra one the other day and I was like, Oh, I hope it's okay.  People be like, who is this?

She hasn't contacted me for so long. I got an email from someone saying, Hey, Renee, am I subscribed? I'm not sure if I can subscribe because I haven't received an  email and I'm like, yeah, I just don't know. So bad.  Yeah. Okay. Don't take, don't follow any advice. I'm  going to listen to Renee on email marketing,  but I think that is definitely an opportunity.

So you knew girl can help you with your email marketing. Come  on. Yeah. That's right. I'll stick to my strength. Okay.  And, you know, again, you've been able to do it without it. So, um, you know, that's right.  Don't even make so much anyway, as well. What you can actually produce, as you said, to your, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I don't know how I just, I got really, that's why I say there's got to be some luck involved.

There is just a lot of hard work, but there also has to be just like a good dose of luck in there for me to have been able to navigate such a competitive market. Um, and have success without having to do the extra things. Yeah. Yeah. But others can say, I mean, I would definitely take that. They can from, from that, um, conversation, I would definitely take that from the start, try and build your email list so that you've got it to sort of almost probably going to match your Instagram or your sort of following, if that's the case, but at least if it's sort of growing the same pace, you know, same rate, it would be ideal.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, definitely. Learn from my mistakes.  And so would you change anything about your journey or do anything differently? Uh,  well, I would've established an email list. Now we know that 

uh, yeah. Look, I probably would've, maybe I wouldn't have done the juggle and put everything on myself as much.  I think that's a big thing. I think in small business, we tend to pull and, and I am very particular about certain things, and that's just in my nature. Um, I don't like to use the word controlling, but maybe that's what it is.

Call it what it is. I like to have control over certain aspects and quality control and there's, and I've tried to pass some of those up and then I've been burnt a little bit, um, in some instances where I've handed those tasks over. So it's hard to not want to just do everything yourself. Yeah. But. When you do everything yourself, it is so overwhelming and you get burnout.

And especially if you have friends and family and a loved one or a dog or someone in your life, anything that needs to To have your attention and your love to, to put it all into a business and all into that side of your life, it's not going to serve you well in the long run. So I think definitely getting some help in an affordable way from the start.

So crunching those numbers and seeing what you can outsource and what you can afford to outsource. I think. Um, yeah, in retrospect, I should have probably invested in some more help from the start. Yeah. Then just taking it all on myself. Yeah. That's part of my personality. So, you know. Well, it's an entrepreneur thing too, I think as well.

You sort of like, Oh, but I can do a Yeah. Oh, I can do it. I'll just find another 10 minutes in my day. I'll find another three hours in my day. And then in the end you just sleep very little and work a lot and run. Like I, I, I'm, I'm very efficient in my business now. When I make, I like, what do I make? But yeah.

Yeah, I wish I probably took that pressure off myself for sure. Yeah. Okay. No, that's good. And what is something that no one knows about you or anything that you could share?  What is something that no one knows about me? I love food. Like I, I would love to open a food business myself, external to my husband, who's a chef. 

He's a chef now, works as a chef now in Italy. No, at the moment he's been taking a break while we found the transition, um, but he is going to be jumping back in that. Yes. So, but he's like a, he's a whole other level. He's like Michelin star level chef. He works in all the fancy restaurants. I call them the fancy ones.

He works where you get all the tiny  portions and you need a kebab afterwards because he's still hungry. Those restaurants. Yup. Yup. Uh, but I love, I'm a street food gal. I love, I did a lot of travel through Southeast Asia. I did a semester abroad when I was at university in Thailand. Um, and so I love just Asian street food. And so I would love to maybe open a business that someone doesn't know about me.

And also I get obsessed with the American elections because I think they are like the most bizarre social experiment on the planet and I find them fascinating.  It's going to be a lot coming up. There's going to be so much that you can dive into. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like one of the pre, the first time Donald Trump went out, my husband was like, just calm your thumb, like stop.

I'm like, but it's so interesting.  And I just like, I get really, yeah. Cause I studied, my background is actually in, um, like social politics, economics, anthropology, and all that kind of stuff. So. Yeah. And community development. So that's my, that's my background. And that's probably where my interest of like creating community sense of community sense of belonging comes from as well.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And so what is next or what's, what's coming up for concrete jellyfish or for you? Oh, what's next? Okay. So I had a trial run with some like, um, Clothing last year, but my manufacturing stuff anyway, there was a bit of a hiccup with dresses at the time when that was last year or not, but. 

Yeah, and they did kind of work, but that was just kind of like a trial run for me. I learnt some lessons from that. So I'm gonna have a dip back into the fields of some clothing. Um, that's coming up. We might dip back into eyewear again.  I do remember always loving your eyewear that you used to wear in your stories.

Yes, yeah, yeah, yes. And so we'll do some, we'll do some, maybe get into some Opticals, and then You're in the perfect place, as you said, like the, with the manufacturer. I know, yeah, I'm in the perfect place to do it. And then some new, we've got the shift in materials. We're still using our resins, but there'll be a shift in materials.

And then there's just always some new releases coming. Some new designs bubbling away under the surface. I found some like 18th century illustrations the other week that were just, were they 16th century? I think they're like 16th century German was the original one and then that took me on a deep, I know it sounds bad, and then took me on a deep dive into finding all these other illustrations.

They're like hand drawn watercolors on birth certificates from a particular, um, era in a particular region, um, here in Europe, like in Germany, and, and they were just so beautiful. And so I think I'm going to try and do a little bit of exploration into that and see if I can really find some pieces to kind of like bring out and create that into a little collection.

Amazing. I love the way that, yeah, your mind works or where you'll find things or what you, um, exploring.  That's right. I just saw, I don't even know where I saw it either. I think I was doing some research because I do, I'm very, um,  deliberate with my design process. Creativity, I say, is 50%, no, even, I reckon even more than that, I'd say 80 percent of hard work.

I'd say creativity is just about really showing up and putting in the hard work. Um, it's not just a, oh, this came to me. It's about doing research, backing up, finding, trialing and error. Getting, being consistent in hard work is where creativity really lies, I think. And so, yeah, when I, when I get on something, I really jump into and put a lot of hard work into trying to find a little piece of gold in there.

Yeah, and as you say, like, it's just a deep dive into it and where can that take you and sort of letting yourself in the process as well. Yeah, and not being guided as much by like what other people are doing.  Like, I don't know, I don't think that 16th century German birth certificates are trending right now in the fashion world.

We'll have to do some research on their data, but I don't think they're getting high on the search engines. No, I don't think they are. And so I feel like that's a good starting point for something innovative because, um, other people aren't onto it. Although now you've got the, now here's the, what do you, the breaking, breaking story.

jump onto it. Hilarious. But yeah. Okay. So funny. Um, thank you so much for sharing so much of your journey. It's been amazing. And can you just, um, tell me again, you, your website is concretejellyfish. co, is it? Dot co. Dot co. It is. Okay. So same as your Instagram.  It is concrete jellyfish. co I think that was like down to a practical thing as I couldn't get.

com. And then I thought, you know what? That's kind of cool. Yeah. So, um, so yeah, concrete jellyfish. co you can find us at, at concrete jellyfish co.  Um, and you will occasionally get an email from me if you sign up  and you won't get any annoying pop ups on my website.  No, no, they're coming, don't worry, we're going to make that happen.

But what you can find is some amazing earrings made from someone who really genuinely likes creating things and giving everything a go.  Yeah. Yeah. But, and some crazy, you know, awesome stuff coming that, you know, they can follow along the journey and see when, when things come out and what's coming next and what's coming to.

Yeah. The excitement. That's the, that's another hot tip for businesses. You need to create some buzz in life as an,  what's coming exactly in life as an adult. I think there's. Really? Well, maybe it's just my life, but I think really, it's so seldom that you get these opportunities to feel like excited, like a little kid, like something coming up, like what, maybe a birthday, Christmas, maybe a kid's birthday, a few things here and there throughout the year.

Um, but to create something that people can feel a little bit enthusiastic about in amongst. All of like the everyday kind of, you know,  drudge sometimes in life, just getting along. I think that's super special. If you can create something that gives someone that little spark of joy every now and again, like of course they're going to want to come back and be a part of that.

It means we're all having like a little bit of joy together. Yeah. Right. I love that. That's a perfect way to end. Thank you so much. Oh, wonderful. Okay. All right. Thanks. It's been a delight.